alligator mouths and butterfly asses

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these damn hollywierdos (martin sheen, sean pean, madonna, ect.) are all stupid. they say they are against the war effort to liberate iraq and add in those damn dixie chimps that say they are ashamed of our president. then why don't they put their money where their mouth is and let ME buy them a one way ticket to iran or lybia or cuba....let us see how they'd feel living in ann opressed regime. why don't they get the hell out of my country? let's see them try to make millions over there. buncha washed out actors trying to get publicized. no need to comment, just feel like voicing my opinions.

i saw your banner on the bottom of your homepage skubee.
Dont it strike you as more than a little hypocritical that it blames the millions killed by saddam on the people for peace when it was the same people you cheer for... bushs/reagan/rumsfeld who sold him those weapons and encouraged him to use them on iranian villages.. and who looked the other way when saddam used the chemicle weapons they sold him on the kurds in the pictures???
man you are one messed up dude! and by the way... just when did it become YOUR country? Martin sheen has been here fighting for the poor and health for the migrant workers long before you were born i bet! All you seem to want is war war war...

nothing wrong with that.

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i'm done reasoning with peons like you. how can i convey a message to your level? hmmm...i got it! ministers of death, praying for war.

____________________________________

st. jude's children hosptital. no child is turned away, ever.

You know what? I find these people who complain talk gibberish just as annoying as protester.

^^RRRR, bong pross you are so mean. I think the stars or normal people are allowed to protest if they got something to say. They are only humans ja. I know no one likes Maddona or her exx-husband Sean Penn at the moment.

valid srey the difference is that celebs USE their fame to make pronouncements they know nothing about as though they were experts. Mereyl Streep and Phil Donahue brought the domestic apple biz to its knees because of factually inaccurate discussions about alar. A celeb is just a person but unfortunately they are treated as experts which they are not. Geez many of them have a hs degree or less yet they pontificate as though they have degrees in economics, political science and International affairs from Ivy leaque schools. They get far too much respect in my humble opinion. Jimmey Buffet had it right in saying that he along with other celebs are nothing more than court jesters and clowns.

Ronald Reagan was a celeb...and a republican.

[Message last modified 04-11-2003 08:41pm by KmyGQ905]

quote:

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Originally posted by KmyGQ905
Ronald Reagan was a celeb...and a republican.

[Message last modified 04-11-2003 08:41pm by KmyGQ905]

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Jessie Ventura became governer too.

janeane garofalo has degrees in both history and political science. not that that means anything in particular. but, eh... lots of folks have some smarts. and some of them are "celebrities."

from an old washington post article.

"They have actors on so they can marginalize the movement," the stand-up comic says. "It's much easier to toss it off as some bizarre, unintelligent special-interest group. If you're an actor who is pro-war, you're a hero. If you're an actor who's against the war, you're suspect. You must have a weird angle or you just hate George Bush."

---from same article.

"....But Garofalo, who works with the group Win Without War, says the media are not only condescending but suggest she doesn't care about the country.

CNN's Leon Harris wondered about her reaction to critics who say that she and her fellow activists "aren't patriotic Americans."

ABC's Robin Roberts asked: "Do you feel at all a risk with your career, especially after September 11th, that anything that you do is considered unpatriotic?"

CNN's Connie Chung asked about American soldiers: "Don't you feel a bit of responsibility in the sense of being supportive of them?"

That question, says Garofalo, "was so silly that it actually had me flummoxed. If you are in the antiwar movement, you obviously don't want the troops to be hurt." ...

theary

How can ANYONE ANYONE say in all seriousness that saving milliopns from death is a bad thing? The people of Iraq so desperate for word of their loved ones abducted by the regime that they yell down wells, beg soldiers at the gates of goverment buildings for word of them. A french source talked about the children in a prison because they wouldn't join the childrens hitler youth oh I meant baath party youth. Garfalo is very articuilate unlike so many of the others. These celebs have proven their naivite, scorn of the US and complete ignorance of the real facts. If one watches CNN only they don't get them either as the nyt confessional by eason jordan demonstrates. I hope all these huge mouthed ignorant celebs pay a price for their anti American demogary. Their fave tact is consumer boycotts and I hyope all of us who are boycotting their movies, cd's etc exact a finacial blow to their overblown egos and sense of importence.

aftermath. aftermath.

the importance lies in the aftermath of this war (when it's over, cuz it ain't yet)... and what we do and the choices this administration makes. as of right now, we're letting the country go into complete chaos. maybe that can't be stopped, who knows? but what's scary nikki, is that you see war in such a black and white manner. it's like a movie. the guts, the glory, the righteous and the just, the drama of the stricken, the oppressed, the liberators. the fact of the matter is, americans are getting a sanitized view of what's happening. this we all know. and soldiers are still shooting down civilians, even within baghdad, for fear of suicide bombers and the like. so people are still dying. if you want to take it to some heart-wrenching climax where desperate hands seek loved ones seperated by a regime... acknowledge that some loved hands won't be reaching back as they've been casualties of the liberators. i don't trust that we've been informed of all the casualties. remember how after the first gulf war, the casualties tally kept going up and up for years? it would be in the back section of the paper. *administration says death toll was actually thousands more than reported last year and even thousands more than was reported the year before* --- paraphrasing.
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Robert Fisk: Who is to blame for the collapse in morality that followed the 'liberation'?

Pillage merits a specific prevention clause in the Geneva Conventions, just as it did in the 1907 Hague Convention

12 April 2003

Let's talk war crimes. Yes, I know about the war crimes of Saddam. He slaughtered the innocent, gassed the Kurds, tortured his people and ? though it is true we remained good friends with this butcher for more than half of his horrible career ? could be held responsible for killing up to a million people, the death toll of the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. But while we are congratulating ourselves on the "liberation" of Baghdad, an event that is fast turning into a nightmare for many of its residents, it is as good a time as any to recall how we've been conducting this ideological war.

So let's start with the end ? with the Gone With The Wind epic of looting and anarchy with which the Iraqi population have chosen to celebrate our gift to them of "liberation" and "democracy". It started in Basra, of course, with our own shameful British response to the orgy of theft that took hold of the city. Our defence minister, Geoff Hoon, made some especially childish remarks about this disgraceful state of affairs, suggesting in the House of Commons that the people of Basra were merely "liberating" ? that word again ? their property from the Baath party. And the British Army enthusiastically endorsed this nonsense.

Even as tape of the pillage in Basra was being beamed around the world, there was Lieutenant Colonel Hugh Blackman of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards cheerfully telling the BBC that "it' s absolutely not my business to get in the way." But of course it is Colonel Blackman's business to "get in the way". Pillage merits a specific prevention clause in the Geneva Conventions, just as it did in the 1907 Hague Convention upon which the Geneva delegates based their "rules of war". "Pillage is prohibited," the 1949 Geneva Conventions say, and Colonel Blackman and Mr Hoon should glance at Crimes of War, published in conjunction with the City University Journalism Department ? page 276 is the most dramatic ? to understand what this means.

When an occupying power takes over another country' s territory, it automatically becomes responsible for the protection of its civilians, their property and institutions. Thus the American troops in Nasiriyah became automatically responsible for the driver who was murdered for his car in the first day of that city's "liberation". The Americans in Baghdad were responsible for the German and Slovak embassies that were looted by hundreds of Iraqis on Thursday, and for the French Cultural Centre, which was attacked, and for the Central Bank of Iraq, which was torched yesterday afternoon.

But the British and Americans have simply discarded this notion, based though it is upon conventions and international law. And we journalists have allowed them to do so. We clapped our hands like children when the Americans "assisted" the Iraqis in bringing down the statue of Saddam Hussein in front of the television cameras this week, and yet we went on talking about the "liberation" of Baghdad as if the majority of civilians there were garlanding the soldiers with flowers instead of queuing with anxiety at checkpoints and watching the looting of their capital.

We journalists have been co-operating, too, with a further collapse of morality in this war. Take, for example, the ruthless bombing of the residential Mansur area of Baghdad last week. The Anglo-American armies ? or the "coalition", as the BBC still stubbornly and mendaciously calls the invaders ? claimed they believed that Saddam and his two evil sons Qusay and Uday were present there. So they bombed the civilians of Mansur and killed at least 14 decent, innocent people, almost all of them ? and this would obviously be of interest to the religious feelings of Messrs Bush and Blair ? Christians.

Now one might have expected the BBC World Service Radio next morning to question whether the bombing of civilians did not constitute a bit of an immoral act, a war crime perhaps, however much we wanted to kill Saddam. Forget it. The presenter in London described the slaughter of these innocent civilians as "a new twist" in the war to target Saddam ? as if it was quite in order to kill civilians, knowingly and in cold blood, in order to murder our most hated tyrant. The BBC's correspondent in Qatar ? where the Centcom boys pompously boasted that they had "real-time" intelligence (subsequently proved to be untrue) that Saddam was present ? used all the usual military jargon to justify the unjustifiable. The "coalition", he announced, knew it had "time-sensitive material" ? ie that they wouldn't have time to know whether they were killing innocent human beings in the furtherance of their cause or not ? and that this "actionable material" (again I quote this revolting BBC dispatch) was not "risk-free".

And then he went on to describe, without a moment of reflection, on the moral issues involved, how the Americans had used four 2,000lb "bunker-buster bombs to level the civilian homes". These are, of course, the very same pieces of ordnance that the same US air force used in their vain effort to kill Osama bin Laden in the Tora Bora mountains. So now we use them, knowingly, on the flimsy homes of civilians of Baghdad ? folk who would otherwise be worthy of the "liberation" we wished to bestow upon them ? in the hope that a gamble, a bit of faulty "intelligence" about Saddam, will pay off.

The Geneva Conventions have a lot to say about all this. They specifically refer to civilians as protected persons, as persons who must have the protection of a warring power even if they find themselves in the presence of armed antagonists. The same protection was demanded for southern Lebanese civilians when Israel launched its brutal "Grapes of Wrath" operation in 1996. When an Israeli pilot, for example, fired a US-made Hellfire missile into an ambulance, killing three children and two women, the Israelis claimed that a Hezbollah fighter had been in the same vehicle. The statement proved to be totally untrue. But Israel was rightly condemned for killing civilians in the hope of killing an enemy combatant. Now we are doing exactly the same. And Ariel Sharon must be pleased. No more namby-pamby western criticism of Israel after the bunker-busters have been dropped on Mansur.

More and more, we are committing these crimes. The mass slaughter of more than 400 civilians in the Amariyah air raid shelter in Baghdad in the 1991 Gulf War was carried out in the hope that it would kill Saddam. Why? Why cannot we abide by the rules of war we rightly demand that others should obey? Why do we journalists ? yet again, war after war ? connive in this immorality by turning a ruthless and cruel and illegal act into a "new twist" or into "time-sensitive material"?

Wars have a habit of turning normally sane people into cheerleaders, of transforming rational journalists into nasty little puffed-up fantasy colonels. But surely we should all carry the Geneva Conventions into war with us, along with that little book from the City University. For the only people to benefit from our own war crimes will be the next generation of Saddam Husseins.

quote:

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Originally posted by nikme
How can ANYONE ANYONE say in all seriousness that saving milliopns from death is a bad thing? The people of Iraq so desperate for word of their loved ones abducted by the regime that they yell down wells, beg soldiers at the gates of goverment buildings for word of them. A french source talked about the children in a prison because they wouldn't join the childrens hitler youth oh I meant baath party youth. Garfalo is very articuilate unlike so many of the others. These celebs have proven their naivite, scorn of the US and complete ignorance of the real facts. If one watches CNN only they don't get them either as the nyt confessional by eason jordan demonstrates. I hope all these huge mouthed ignorant celebs pay a price for their anti American demogary. Their fave tact is consumer boycotts and I hyope all of us who are boycotting their movies, cd's etc exact a finacial blow to their overblown egos and sense of importence.

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 3 attacks on arab journalists in 3 days!

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i think that is rather telling...
ohh yeah.. its just a coincidence.

 more obvious lies...

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The bush administration just never stops lieing..!
Its sooo blatently clear. Rumsfeld does his temper tantrum about journalists reporting on the anachy and lootting.. claiming its just the same guy with a vase over and over. Like we cant see otherwise in dozens of media outlets! Then ali fliecer claims its just the bath party offices getting lootted... but apparently he didnt get the british in on this lie! The musiums, shops, homes of people who fled are raveged! The Red Cross reports the medical system in iraq has colapsed and hospitals have been looted and destroyed!!! Dr,s have ak47's at their side knowing armed gangs will return again...! Then they say it will simmer down soon... but a british major reports that it has started to subside in basera... but mainly because there is nothing left to be stolden!!! All the SHOPS are now empty! Wonder what lies they'll feed us tommarow.
on the morality issue. I think dropping diry bombs... radioactive waste bombs with a lifespan of Billions of yrs. is immoral.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cali4Humanity
i think that is rather telling...
ohh yeah.. its just a coincidence.

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Do you think it is a conspiracy that three Arab journalists were killed during war? I hope you don't think that it was a conspiracy by Israel and the US government for the 9/11 attack as well. Every journalists including the deceased Arab, Spanish, and British journalists that were killed know the inherent risk of covering a story in war. In the case of the shooting of an Al-Jezzara journalist killed in the Palestine Hotel, I give the US troops the benefit of the doubt. Giving what I have seen and heard about the Fadayeen dressed in civilian cloths, suicide bombers, waving a false surrenderring, human shields, and other violations of the Geneva Conventions for the rules of war by the Fadayeen I wouldn't doubt that a sniper fired was from the hotel. Remember that it is war, decision are made in split seconds.

[Message last modified 04-13-2003 04:19pm by hang_em]

cali, you again?!!

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dude, it's war. people die in war, including journalists. and hey, i don't know about you, but if i'm getting shot at, or i think i am getting shot at, i'm going to return fire. that's what war is about. kill the other side before the other side kills you.

____________________________________

st. jude's children hosptital. no child is turned away, ever.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cali4Humanity
The bush administration just never stops lieing..!

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Don't be suprised. I think everyone have made promises that they can never keep and lied many times before.


[Message last modified 04-21-2003 02:29pm by Dario]

At last I heard about celebs recounting their so noteable higher education cv's Jeanne Garafolo was a college dropout like so many others or some liberal arts majhor. War is hell, people die but its a numbers game i.e. do we save more lives by fighting or fail to fight and hear about the untold millions dead after the fact. When prisons were opened not just innocents left but criminal types also. Stuff happens and none of the wenging whining lib types wenge post riots here in the US. Get over it. Stress kills so don't let stress, anger hostility etc rob you of life. Go garden, pet an animal, listen to the waves on the beach,(I'm coming up with stress relievers here, hug a loved one, read a fictional book, turn on the cd player instead of the news, cook something extrodinary for some friends, .....better now?